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Smart marketing or a lack of integrity?

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Today’s article is a video and asks whether something I encountered recently is smart marketing or exhibiting a lack of integrity.  Please share your thoughts below after listening in (it’s just under 4 minutes). . .

Update to the video… The vendor has since sent out a replay of the “livestream only, no replay will be available” session due to “overwhelming demand”.

While I do feel that the special offer just for people who had a decline is lacking integrity, I waver on this second piece of it — in part, I feel it’s disrespectful to those of us who adjusted our schedule (as I did) because of the several emails adamantly stating there would be no replay and in another part, I know it’s okay to change your mind.

At the end of the day, we need to do what’s in integrity for us.  These are tactics I wouldn’t use and I’m good with that. :-)

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Business Marketing: Why Watching and Imitating Aren’t Enough, Are You Building a Business or a Marketing Empire?, Business and Marketing Authorities, Experts and Masters, Where are my business results?, Creating Success — could it really be this simple?

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  • Carol Boxall

    I would have insisted that they tell me what the special offer was before hanging up the phone. If it was of benefit to me, I would have made sure that I got it.

    • http://www.SandraMartini.com/blog Sandra Martini, Biz Mentor

      Hey Carol,

      You’re absolutely correct…I should have insisted and didn’t and honestly, the whole purchase feels “tainted” to me.  Especially since it’s now Wednesday and we still don’t have access.

      Thanks for commenting!

      With abundance,

      Sandy :-)

  • Lynda

    Sandy, I would consider this a
    lack of integrity. A similar thing happened to me recently when I
    attended a W/E marketing workshop in NY put on by someone who at that time had my
    respect.
    Turned out the workshop (for which I paid + air fare and hotel)
    was just one big marketing ploy for a Masters Program. What really
    ticked me off was that we were told that the offer of $1000 off the
    program went away at 5pm on Sunday. So how is it that a couple days
    after I return home, I get an email telling me that if I sign up by the
    end of the month, I get a $1000 discount? And another one a few days later.
    This left a very bad taste in my mouth and consequently, I will not buy
    from that person again. Guess I did learn something about marketing
    that w/e !

    • http://www.SandraMartini.com/blog Sandra Martini, Biz Mentor

      Hi Lynda,

      Those schemes tick me off.  Seriously.  I remember someone stating she had “100 copies” of something and sharing in a private group that she sold over 200 and she considered that using “scarcity” as a marketing strategy.

      Two things… 1/ I never did business with her again and 2/ scarcity works when it’s real, not manufactured. 

      We could go into the conversation of Karma, but I’ll leave that to those more qualified.

      Thanks for sharing your experience,

      With abundance,

      Sandy :-)

  • http://www.annbell.net/ Ann Bell

    Professionals in business don’t lower the price for individuals to encourage a purchase. IF there is a discount for a certain category of customer, that category should be established at the beginning of the conversation…such as a special offer sent to previous clients, but not posted on the website or announced publicly. I’m always annoyed when an exit pop-up says “Wait! We have a special offer for you.”

    What you encountered was the same thing!

    • http://www.SandraMartini.com/blog Sandra Martini, Biz Mentor

      Hey Ann,

      I agree…I believe in offering incentives for previous clients, but not in saying, “oh, that didn’t work out, here’s a lower price”.  That just feels icky to me and, in my opinion, it discounts the “thing” that we’re buying.

      Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts!

      With abundance,

      Sandy :-)

      • http://www.nourishingjourney.com/ Stephani

        I’ve actually formed a new habit because of all those pop-ups… I always click X to close the sales page to see if one of those offers come up before I consider buying! 

        Some “great marketing techniques” just end up creating suspicion. And then the audience begins to expect lower rates, discounts, etc… and it just lowers trust.

        • http://www.SandraMartini.com/blog Sandra Martini, Biz Mentor

          Hi Stephani,

          You know, now that you mention it, I do the same thing in just “x”ing out to see what happens.  It has lowered my trust and I almost never purchase from someone who does that as I feel they don’t value their product/program/service if they’ll so easily discount it and if they don’t value it, why should I?

          Great points!

          Thanks!

          With abundance,

          Sandy :-)

          • Sandra

            Let me preface this by saying that while I’d love to give these people the benefit of the doubt, I think it’s a little slimy.
             It’s also the reason why, although I’ve never purchased from you, you remain the only “coach” who’s newsletters, etc. I continue to read.  And, the only reason I have not purchased anything  is because there is not a “fit” for our businesses.  I manufacture hard products with a very narrow niche.  Nevertheless, you continue to impress me with your innate sense of fairness, integrity and good business sense.  I’m a fan of you as a person.This past year I took a chance, after really doing my homework, to work with a Very, Very well known coach.  As I was poised to expand my business in a new direction, I knew very clearly what I needed and wanted.  This was advertised as everything I could have dreamed it would be…  All the one on one time, the huge Mastermind “priceless” networking opportunities, her wholehearted promises that her program would, indeed, work for my aspirations for my company and very narrow niche, two dream group trips at a fabulous location, the promises of gifts, bonuses, the amenities ad naseum.Within 90 days it became glaringly apparent that there were exactly four people in this priceless networking group, the first meeting was held at an airport hotel, the fabulous dinner at a SFO restaurant was actually six people huddled around a four person table at a Mexican restaurant in San Jose, the Limo was a taxi and her husband had been invited to join us, which precluded further business discussion.  Let me just say that a “hot seat opportunity” with a CEO client can really make a coach look like an idiot if she has not prepared well.For this, I spent $12,000 up front for a one year program.  This individual had No idea of how to work with high level corporate executives and her inexperience made her look like a fool to all of us.  However, her marketing, website and promises made and even a very likable personality looked like the epitome of a marketing genius.  What we all discovered was that this was something she had never done and we were the guinea pigs.  She had no previous experience working with people at very high levels and years of business to business corporate  experience.  There is no way that she did not realize that I was not her “ideal customer” from the beginning and tried to wing it, but I doubt that she had ever worked with anyone above a young, inexperienced newcomer to the business world.  That’s not a negative if that is what someone hires you for.Her inexperience was also reflected in the attitude and business etiquette she displayed when confronted.  It amounted to “It’s my business and I can do whatever I want”.  Obviously, when confronted with what really amounted to false advertising, she refused any attempt to renegotiate her fee, offer something different or refund any of the cost, even though she was unable to deliver.  Basically, we all got screwed and she made a lot of money.  If it were me, I would Never want that kind of business karma. Shortly thereafter, the program was dissolved, but I did not receive any compensation nor any attempt at an apology.  She has never made another attempt at such a program–sort of like “the video is no longer available”…My apologies for the off track rant, but I am super sensitive now to anything that even remotely raises that sense of “hmmm…” 

  • http://trickettglass.ca Carol Trickett

    Hey Sandy, great video.  I think it’s great customer service to follow up and make other payment arrangements if one does not work out.  However, I hate it when I find out about a “deal” where I could have got something cheaper or a better offer.  I feel cheated or not as important as someone else.  We should never make our customers feel this way. 

    • http://www.SandraMartini.com/blog Sandra Martini, Biz Mentor

      Hey Carol,

      I agree…it’s great client care to offer payment arrangements if that makes sense.  Honestly, I prefer to put the payment arrangements right up front and not have people “ask” for them, simply because, in today’s economy, many people prefer this option and I want to make it as easy as possible for them to invest.

      And you’re right…I do feel cheated and the funny thing is I don’t even know whether I’d want what they offered…I just don’t like not knowing what it was.

      And the fact that the product still hasn’t been delivered irks me even more.

      Thanks so much for stopping by,

      With abundance,

      Sandy :-)

  • KerryAnn

    Even if it was the same offer you were getting on the webinar, they leave the impression of a lack of integrity.  It would be a red flag for me, too.

    • http://www.SandraMartini.com/blog Sandra Martini, Biz Mentor

      Hi KerryAnn,

      I wish they had shared the offer (whatever it was/is) on the webinar as it would have felt better to me and, I’m assuming, they would have made more sales — they’ll never know what sales were lost because the “thing” wasn’t part of the information people had in making their decision.

      Thanks for stopping by and commenting,

      With abundance,

      Sandy :-)

  • http://www.thehiredpen.biz Lisbeth Tanz

    Wow – I was really impressed until the “special offer” message was delivered. I’m not certain I think this was a lack of integrity on the seller’s part, but more just plain stupidity. In an effort to make a sale (potentially), s/he simply offered too much too soon. Could the special offer have been made if you’d called? Yes – and they should have simply left it up to you to decide to call. Honestly, I’m not certain I would chase after someone that hard if a card was declined. An interesting lesson in patience, really. If they had set up their system to do the first two things – email and cell phone – and then waited, oh say an hour or two or three – then contacted again, you would never have received that third message anyway. And if the special offer was additional ways/time to pay, that should be offered to everyone. Thanks for the thinking today! :)

    • http://www.SandraMartini.com/blog Sandra Martini, Biz Mentor

      Awesome points Lisbeth and I completely agree.  Now that you write it, it really is a lesson in patience and the whole things now has an air of desperation to it — whether intended or not.

      Thanks so much for commenting!

      With abundance,

      Sandy :-)

  • http://www.sevenoaksconsulting.com/ Jeanne Grunert

    I’m not sure it’s a lack of integrity. I would call it either bad marketing or poor marketing. My first thought was “why are you making a second offer…when a card has been declined?”  My second thought was that they may have an old, outdated auto responder system in place. I’ve encountered that before with clients who have forgotten they have something in place; it’s dinging out messages that aren’t supporting their current marketing. Either way, I have seen this before. Prices drop and those who are late or reluctant to sign up for a program end up getting the better deal. It does indeed leave a bad taste in the mouth. 

    • http://www.SandraMartini.com/blog Sandra Martini, Biz Mentor

      Thanks Jeanne…my guess is that it’s not an old autoresponder as this was from an individual — no indication that it came from the cart and personalized beyond name and info provided on order form.

      This offer was a “must buy” on this livestream offer — turns out, about 10 min ago, I received the livestream replay (which originally was not going to be released).

      Bad taste for me…

      Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

      With abundance,

      Sandy :-)

      • Dori

        So, are you going to cancel and request your money back now Sandy?  I’m curious, because it really sounds like whatever might have been there for you may not come through with the lens of this experience attached.

        • http://www.SandraMartini.com/blog Sandra Martini, Biz Mentor

          Hi Dori,

          Honestly, I’m not sure yet.  I still want the product (and yes…that does annoy me a bit) as I think it will serve my team well. 

          We’ll see if they actually deliver the product this week or not.  Tomorrow will be one week since purchase.  (It’s an online product — no mailing time.)

          Thanks for asking.  :-)

          With abundance,

          Sandy :-)

  • Dori Etter

    I don’t think it’s a lack of integrity – I think it was someone trying too hard.

    Leaving the “special offer” message was a mistake, and we can call ride on our high horses, but the truth is we’ve been in a place in our business, or a conversation with a potential client where we have given them an offer or a discount that we haven’t or wouldn’t in another circumstance or with another client.

    I guess I also tend to forgive people for something like this when everything else feels good.  There are SO MANY conflicting marketing messages out there today, it’s easy to try something and realize for ourselves – it doesn’t work for me and my company the way someone else had it work for theirs.  Again – if we really look at ourselves, most of us have done this in the past too, and it doesn’t mean we don’t have integrity – it means that being an entrepreneur is about always being a student too.

    • http://www.SandraMartini.com/blog Sandra Martini, Biz Mentor

      Hi Dori,

      Thanks so much for your comments.  I don’t consider it being on a “high horse” so much as deciding how I feel about being treated this way.

      Will I do business with this vendor again in the future?  I don’t know — as each day progresses, the likelihood slims.  This has left a bad taste for me, especially since the product has yet to be delivered.

      The first email after purchase indicated that we’d have login info “within 24 hours”.  4 days after purchase, I followed up and got an immediate response that it should be in next 24 hours as they’re testing things.

      That was two days ago.

      They have delivered a piecemeal video to keep purchasers engaged.

      I should note this is not a new business owner.  This is a large company — I can’t say if they use this practice regularly as I’ve never had a card decline with them before (I have made one other purchase).

      It’s that other purchase that has me hanging with them so far.

      Thanks again for sharing your thoughts,

      With abundance,

      Sandy :-)

  • Kathleen

    Hi Sandra~
    I agree with the previous comments…it could have been any number of scenarios but the bottom line is that it left you with a bad feeling and questioning their integrity and you probably weren’t the only one. I think I would contact them somehow and let them know what happened and the kind of impression it made on you…you should be able to tell by their response whether it is an integrity issue or an oversight or stupidity…or all 3! LOL!
    One thing that bothers me with these types of offers is the changing fees for different times of enrollment…I’m all for offering an early bird special but to knock the price down for people who register late or adding on a ridiculous amount for payment options doesn’t leave me feeling good about an offer neither does the “sly upsell”…..the VIP packages that are not offered right up front but only after you’ve registered for the offer made…I’d rather know my options right up front and then always have the option to uplevel.
    There’s a lesson here!

    Blessings & Beauty to you today! Hope you are staying COOL!
    Kathleen

    • http://www.SandraMartini.com/blog Sandra Martini, Biz Mentor

      Hi Kathleen,

      AMEN!  That about sums it up.

      I have drafted a message to the company president who I met on a recent business trip.  The ending has yet to be written based on when the product is actually delivered.

      As for the staying cool part…ick!  Last I looked, it said 102 outside and that’s never a good thing in Massachusetts.  Only two more days and then they say we’ll be back in the 70s thank heavens.

      Thanks for your comments!

      With abundance,

      Sandy :-)

  • Teemgo

    I personally have stopped purchasing all those “great” deals via the internet, regardless of how “perfect” it may seem, or how it’s going to make my financial future so much brighter.  I know in my heart that there will always be an “upsale” deal that you only have “x” hours to take advantage of.  None of the products have ever worked out (for me, at least), that resulted in make all this extra income.  A few weeks ago I did purchase a “deal” that was priced very low, but when I didn’t accept the upsale, I never heard from anyone and never did get the original product or system.

    • http://www.SandraMartini.com/blog Sandra Martini, Biz Mentor

      Hi Teemgo,

      I’m sorry…it’s horrible service that you never received the original product you purchased.

      Don’t let a few bad apples spoil things for you — there are many, many honorable people who do business online and it’s sad, although understandable, that the others can have such an effect on our trust.

      I’ve learned that no product, program or service is going to make me a millionaire.  It’s a combination of hard work, smart strategies, being in integrity (even when no one’s looking or even knows who you are) and building relationships with great people.

      I hope you follow-up with the recent vendor and either get the product or a refund — they shouldn’t get away with it.

      Thanks so much for sharing your experience and thoughts,

      With abundance,

      Sandy :-)

  • Bonnie Hutchinson

    Like Dori, I wouldn’t call it lack of integrity either. But I also don’t think it’s smart marketing. I think it is never a good idea to make better offers to prospective customers than you give to existing customers.
         Case in point: I got a postcard promoting a really great price for business internet/phone service if I switched away from my current provider. The postcard was from the company I already use! (Obviously their mass mailout distribution list was not checked against their current customer list.) I looked at this special offer and thought, “So how come I – who have been a loyal customer for years – can’t get this special offer?” Later this week I’m going to have a conversation with the company to re-think all the the services I purchase from them. I’m now going shopping for better deals, from this company or someone else, and if I hadn’t heard about their special offer, I wouldn’t be considering other providers.
         My takeaway for my own business is, make special offers first to existing loyal customers, and then make them available to people I don’t yet have a relationship with. Extreme client care needs to start with current clients. My second takeaway is never assume that messages intended only for some people will not reach other people! In sending any electronic message to anybody (even if I think it’s private), I try to remember to look at it one last time to make sure I’d be comfortable if any person on the planet saw/heard it!
        For the company that Sandy dealt with, I think it was a mistake not to offer her the same deal that would have been available to her before her payment went through. Not a lack of integrity, exactly, but a marketing and client relationship error. I would not ever want a new client to start our relationship feeling the way Sandy does right now.

    • http://www.SandraMartini.com/blog Sandra Martini, Biz Mentor

      Hi Bonnie,

      Great points!  We just had the same thing happen with our internet/phone/television provider and when DH (darling hubby) called, they said they can’t help us unless we leave them, activate their competitor and then come back.  Seriously?!?!

      And I agree, special offers go to my existing clients as a “thank you” for being a client.

      Thanks so much for your thoughts and sharing your recent experience — now your vendor may lose a client due to poor systems…hopefully a learning experience for them.

      It’s always worth the time to take an extra few minutes and check/proof something.

      Thanks for stopping by,

      With abundance,

      Sandy :-)   (miss you!)

      • http://profiles.google.com/eldercaresupport Shelley Webb

         I miss her too! 

  • http://www.traceylawton.com/ Tracey Lawton

    I thought it was smart marketing up to the point where you said about the “other offer”.  At that point the email shouldn’t have even been sent because your payment had already processed.  So it’s probably smart marketing combined with not-so-smart systems.

    And, of course, ideally what they should have done is told you about the special offer and offered it to you anyway.

    • http://www.SandraMartini.com/blog Sandra Martini, Biz Mentor

      Hey Tracey,

      I agree. . .the irony of course being that what I was investing in was a systems-related product.  And yes…they should have told me what the special offer was, even if it no longer applied (such as a payment plan) since I’d already paid.

      Oh well…good news is it serves as a reminder to us all to check our systems and put ourselves in our clients’ shoes while asking if this is how we’d want to be treated.

      Thanks for stopping by,

      With abundance,

      Sandy :-)

  • http://www.BigVisionSuccess.com/ Faina Sechzer

    Sandy, I wouldn’t call it lack of integrity without knowing the details behind what happened. I had a client whose credit card was declined. Since I was using a new shopping card system, I didn’t know if the problem was on my side and I didn’t want the client to wait for the resolution. I called her and offered to accept check payment, which is not offered on my web site. There are circumstances, when exceptions are called for.

    Their mistake was not to tell you what is offered to clients whose card is declined. May be they offer payment by check:)

    • http://www.SandraMartini.com/blog Sandra Martini, Biz Mentor

      Hi Faina,

      You’re right — the issue is that, after asking a couple of times, they wouldn’t tell me what the “offer” was.  We can speculate all day and never know if we’re right or wrong.

      This is a large company, using a system they know well. Could it have been check payment?  Absolutely.  Could it have been a payment plan?  Absolutely.  Could it have been an extra bonus?  Absolutely.

      We’ll never know. . .

      Thanks so much for commenting,

      With abundance,

      Sandy :-)

  • Renita

    This ‘special offer’ reeks of a lack of credibility. There appears to be a wide gap between what was said on the call and the follow-through. It would definitely be a red flag for me. I’m certain you can find a product similar to theirs without the credibility issues. I would question the product’s ability to perform as advertised based upon this action.

  • Rmaulini

    This is along the same lines as when you click off a buy page and then they pop up with an offer for the same thing for less which you would not see if you had gone ahead and gotten it to begin with. So the lesson I learned from these offers is that I always now weed ” them” out by never just clicking through without checking out what lies beyond a “no” buy decision or “get off page” action, Make sense? Marketers are trying to get more clever each time to capture visitors to buy by having the user decide “their best buy point” and, frankly, it has left me with a very bad taste in my mouth that overflows to those that may have a good offering. Have you ever experienced what I am describing?

  • Kceesmith

    Hi,
    What is the difference between “trying to hard” and pulling the wool over someone’s eyes?  How can you tell if a product is for real if the seller does not reveal everything up front?  I question integrity when I get a gut feeling that I am being led down a path to who knows where.  Since I did not see the original sales pitch I hesitate to call it lack of integrity, but I don’t trust enough to go along with this type of plan.  I am also concerned because you stated that you really were not sure what it was you actually bought.
    Karen Smith

  • http://profiles.google.com/eldercaresupport Shelley Webb

    I completely agree with Tracey.  If they explained what the offer was and extended it to you, it would have solved much of your concern, because like Faina said, it may only have been the ability to pay by check.

    Systems are great but sometimes technology gets in the way of them.  :)